Adam, I have the tail kit in hand and plan to start playing with some aluminum in a week or so. Thanks for the primer suggestions.
Tony, Thanks for the information. I wondered why your parts did not have primer on them and now I understand. This will save time, money, and weight. All good things.
Mike
Primer - Corrosion Protection
Forum rules
The PantherCave is for Panther builders, potential builders and enthusiasts. Two simple rules: Be Nice and Use a Real Name.
The PantherCave is for Panther builders, potential builders and enthusiasts. Two simple rules: Be Nice and Use a Real Name.
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MikeS.
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:21 am
- First Name: Mike
- Last Name: Smith
- City or Town: Tuscaloosa
- State or Province: AL
- Location: TCL
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Tony Spicer
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:35 am
- First Name: Tony
- Last Name: Spicer
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- Location: Wilmington, NC 7NC1
Re: Primer - Corrosion Protection
Adam,
Go to the ACS catalog and compare the price of 2024 to 6061. The 2024 is about 30% stronger and considerably more expensive. All the 6061 is T6. Makes for a slightly heavier, but much less expensive airframe. You won't break it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ne17wH ... e=youtu.be
Tony
Go to the ACS catalog and compare the price of 2024 to 6061. The 2024 is about 30% stronger and considerably more expensive. All the 6061 is T6. Makes for a slightly heavier, but much less expensive airframe. You won't break it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ne17wH ... e=youtu.be
Tony
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Adam Wright
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:41 pm
- First Name: Adam
- Last Name: Wright
- City or Town: Ozark
- State or Province: Alabama
Re: Primer - Corrosion Protection
Tony,
That is interesting that the Panther uses 6061 I just assumed it was 1024T-3 like my RV. Any particular reason why they went with that vs 1024 ? The specs seem comparable but the 1024, it seems, is a more accepted alloy for aircraft building and supposedly has better fatigue resistance vs 6061. Do you know what thickness and temper(t-?) of the wing and tail skins used in the Panther?
Adam
That is interesting that the Panther uses 6061 I just assumed it was 1024T-3 like my RV. Any particular reason why they went with that vs 1024 ? The specs seem comparable but the 1024, it seems, is a more accepted alloy for aircraft building and supposedly has better fatigue resistance vs 6061. Do you know what thickness and temper(t-?) of the wing and tail skins used in the Panther?
Adam
Last edited by Adam Wright on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tony Spicer
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:35 am
- First Name: Tony
- Last Name: Spicer
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- Location: Wilmington, NC 7NC1
Re: Primer - Corrosion Protection
Hi Mike,
There's not even one square inch of alclad aluminum in the Panther. 2024 is clad, but not the 6061 used in the Panther construction. 6061 is very corrosion resistant. Use primer if it lets you sleep better. Can't find the link talking about the C-47/DC-3. It was built with unprimed 6061. Plenty of them still flying in some pretty nasty environments. I'm 10 miles from the coast in NC. Didn't prime my Sonex (6061) RV-3 (2024), nor will I prime my Panther. Give this a read:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/f ... ysprune=-1
Tony
There's not even one square inch of alclad aluminum in the Panther. 2024 is clad, but not the 6061 used in the Panther construction. 6061 is very corrosion resistant. Use primer if it lets you sleep better. Can't find the link talking about the C-47/DC-3. It was built with unprimed 6061. Plenty of them still flying in some pretty nasty environments. I'm 10 miles from the coast in NC. Didn't prime my Sonex (6061) RV-3 (2024), nor will I prime my Panther. Give this a read:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/f ... ysprune=-1
Tony
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Adam Wright
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:41 pm
- First Name: Adam
- Last Name: Wright
- City or Town: Ozark
- State or Province: Alabama
Re: Primer - Corrosion Protection
Mike,
Most of the big boys(airliners and military) use a epoxy primer. It does not require any top coat(extra weight) to seal, can be applied fairly thin and is very durable. Might I suggest the mil spec AKZO primer. I have had great results with it and it dries really fast. Drawbacks are paint gun usage, having to mix it every time and ventilation and respirator concerns. That being said it is really easy to mix and apply. If you use small mixing cups(test make sure they dont melt first;) its not too hard or too messy to do small batches. For prep I use a product developed for Boeing called Prekote, you first wet it down with prekote and then scrub the areas to be primed with a scotchbrite pad and then you wash if off and wait for it to dry, thats it! This replaces your traditional clean, etch and alodine steps. Both AKZO and Prekote are available at Aircraft Spruce. The AKZO primer is pricey but you could easily do the entire plane with the 2 gal kit(1 gal primer / 1 gal catalyst) Hope this helps with your decision!
Another note, good to see another Alabama guy here. Do you have any of the Panther kits in hand yet? Best of luck.
Adam
Most of the big boys(airliners and military) use a epoxy primer. It does not require any top coat(extra weight) to seal, can be applied fairly thin and is very durable. Might I suggest the mil spec AKZO primer. I have had great results with it and it dries really fast. Drawbacks are paint gun usage, having to mix it every time and ventilation and respirator concerns. That being said it is really easy to mix and apply. If you use small mixing cups(test make sure they dont melt first;) its not too hard or too messy to do small batches. For prep I use a product developed for Boeing called Prekote, you first wet it down with prekote and then scrub the areas to be primed with a scotchbrite pad and then you wash if off and wait for it to dry, thats it! This replaces your traditional clean, etch and alodine steps. Both AKZO and Prekote are available at Aircraft Spruce. The AKZO primer is pricey but you could easily do the entire plane with the 2 gal kit(1 gal primer / 1 gal catalyst) Hope this helps with your decision!
Another note, good to see another Alabama guy here. Do you have any of the Panther kits in hand yet? Best of luck.
Adam
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MikeS.
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:21 am
- First Name: Mike
- Last Name: Smith
- City or Town: Tuscaloosa
- State or Province: AL
- Location: TCL
Primer - Corrosion Protection
The Panther is my first aluminum project so I have concerns about long term internal corrosion protection. I know that the Alclad surface will provide this protection so I’m only concerned about metal to metal contact areas like the individual spar pieces before assembly, rib/bulkhead to skin contact areas, etc. I want to minimize weight so I am not spraying primer on the open areas of the internal skin surfaces.
I have been to multiple websites to get some ideas and there seems to be a long debate on what product to use; Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Phosphate, SEM self-etching primer, and NAPA 7220 self-etching primer (Martin Senour product).
Cost and health issues aside (it’s a given that we want to be frugal and should all be using health protection) what are your product recommendations for a primer sealer: (A) aerosol can for small parts, (B) use in spray equipment for large parts like the spar.
As for application do you recommend: (A) clean the parts then spray; this leaves the Alclad protection untouched, (B) scuff the parts with a Scotch-Brite pad, clean, and then spray; it seems that this technique would break the Alclad protection. If “B” is chosen to what degree does the part need scuffing: Scotch-Brite General Purpose (red pad) or Ultra-Fine (gray pad)?
I don’t mean to beat a dead horse with this subject but I haven’t found a direct answer to the questions in the forum searches. My composite airplane projects were eons ago and there were limited aluminum and steel parts. The parts were either powder coated or I cleaned the parts and painted with Zinc Chromate from an aerosol can. Depending on where the part was going determined whether it was top coated with an epoxy primer and paint or just left with the Zinc Chromate finish.
Do all of the products listed above, or that you might otherwise recommend, provide a good seal to the primer to ward off moisture? Some primers actually absorb moisture and we don’t want that.
What say you?
Thanks - Mike
I have been to multiple websites to get some ideas and there seems to be a long debate on what product to use; Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Phosphate, SEM self-etching primer, and NAPA 7220 self-etching primer (Martin Senour product).
Cost and health issues aside (it’s a given that we want to be frugal and should all be using health protection) what are your product recommendations for a primer sealer: (A) aerosol can for small parts, (B) use in spray equipment for large parts like the spar.
As for application do you recommend: (A) clean the parts then spray; this leaves the Alclad protection untouched, (B) scuff the parts with a Scotch-Brite pad, clean, and then spray; it seems that this technique would break the Alclad protection. If “B” is chosen to what degree does the part need scuffing: Scotch-Brite General Purpose (red pad) or Ultra-Fine (gray pad)?
I don’t mean to beat a dead horse with this subject but I haven’t found a direct answer to the questions in the forum searches. My composite airplane projects were eons ago and there were limited aluminum and steel parts. The parts were either powder coated or I cleaned the parts and painted with Zinc Chromate from an aerosol can. Depending on where the part was going determined whether it was top coated with an epoxy primer and paint or just left with the Zinc Chromate finish.
Do all of the products listed above, or that you might otherwise recommend, provide a good seal to the primer to ward off moisture? Some primers actually absorb moisture and we don’t want that.
What say you?
Thanks - Mike