kit evolution

[Sacpilot]

Dan,

Great info! Just got back from taking my 3 year old up for his first flight. It was in a 172sp, but hopefully it left a mark. He seemed to love it. Even took the controls. Appreciate the candid responses instead of optimism which leads to disappointment.

Happy thanksgiving and I look forward to being a part of the Panther build family.

[danweseman]

Paul
let me clarify a bit, being totally candid
The Kit, Plans, And documentation ,"evolution" is at a very very early stage. To be honest we don't have the first round of the basic plans ,and builders manuals for the complete kit out yet. as soon as we have something "buildable" for every section, we will go back and do a second pass with better photos ,more current part #s etc. The evolution of plans and documentation will likely be ongoing until the Panther goes into legacy state (20 years from now like where the RV-3 and -4 kits or zenith ch 701 -601 HD series) We DO constantly make small revisions and have the revision log up etc. And we try to incorporate notes that say things like " newer kits may have these holes already drilled " etc ? Zenith has been doing this for 30 years, so I doubt we are even close to having this as dialed in as they do at a year in.(just being honest)
As for parts, they are also constantly evolving. the latest parts have the tail cone fuel tanks and leading edges of wings matched tool. the tail kit has the spars and rib to spar joints matched but skins (pre drilled) still need to be drilled to ribs. The main ribs in the wing are like this also. The tail kit will get fully matched tool at the next round of kits parts. We will tool and verify while we are assembling the tail for the Cougar. These parts should be included in serial #75 we are at about 51 now. Wing rib to skin match tooling will be at this time also.
as for parts we continually make the part more complete. Fuel tanks are a good example . the first kits were not match tool and you received "generic" ribs . Now they are matched tool and the ribs are all set with vent, transfer holes etc, ready to use. We will continue doing this along with constantly striving to make better parts at a acceptable cost.

kit lead times as honest as possible
Tail kits 2-3 weeks to ship
Full kits Feb. If you order now. (We have welded parts stacking up around shop waiting on the canopies and skirts, and cowls if ordered along with kits) .

as for parts not in final form (or close per above)
canopy latch parts are not in production (designed but waiting on canopy skirt for verification) , and the wheel pants are being worked on now.

Hope this helps some.

[Sacpilot]

Paul,

Perfect! Was what I was looking for. I assume the builders only website supplements the manual and plans as things change too.

Hey, thanks for the plier orders! Just a reminder if you didn't see the announcement, Viking Air, the Dehavilland Otter and Beaver makers suggested a great little modification to the pliers. We added .050" to the top steel press piece that depresses the plunger so that the handles don't have to compress as far. Makes a really nice difference. Because we only had a $3 margin on these early tools, we offered to provide the update at our cost, rather than make people have to buy new pliers to get the update. If you didn't see it, go to clecall.com and check out the blog. You can order as many pieces as you need for the pliers you bought if you haven't done it already. Only $2.50 a piece including shipping via paypal. Call me at 916-251 9494 if you have any questions

I'll order plans tonight.

If kit lead times can be posted after holidays on Monday, might help people.

Thanks again for communication!



Thanks!

[psalter]

Hello,

Dan and Rachel have company in town for the holiday. I didn't see your earlier post until now.

I will try to answer some of your questions, but I will have to leave the lead times to Dan and Rachel. But, tail kits, wing kits, and tail cone kits have been shipped to many builders, and more will be shipping soon.

The tail cone, wing nose ribs, and fuel tanks, are matched hole and the structure on the wings and tail are matched hole to each other, you still drill the flanges from the predrilled holes on the skin. We are still planning on match hole on the main wing ribs and tail kit, but no definitive date on those.

We are selling new hardware kits now.

We are working on manuals and plans for the final assembly of the aircraft, including rigging. We try hard to incorporate changes in the manuals as we find them.

There are a few parts that have not been made yet, mostly small things like a couple of guide blocks and such. Some parts have only been first article items, and are currently being test fit.

The first aircraft built from production kits should be flying sometime early next year. Several are starting to rig flight controls. Builders manuals are created from pictures taken while building these aircraft.

FYI we bought several pairs of your cleco pliers for use in the shop.

[Sacpilot]

Ok, let me simplify my questions to facilitate a quicker response. Are all parts necessary for the kit in their final form regardless of volume? Or are there any parts still in development? Do the builders manual/plans incorporate changes that may have occurred over the past year of production?

[Sacpilot]

Hello guys,

I have been soaking up everything Panther I can get my hands on. As the production of parts has evolved as the year has progressed, there has been many mentions on the builder logs, etc about "this part will be done a certain way by the time the builders start". This brought up the issue of match drilling, builders manual, and plans. Have the parts (almost all) that have been anticipated to move to match drilling, moved there? If there are parts that are not, which key components would those be at about a year in to production? Are the plans and manual revised to date? One frustration as the Zenith 750 kit evolved through 3 versions, is that as I purchased V3, some drawings and manual instructions stilll showed V1 things. This cost some errors and reshipping of parts. And, it appears that you can buy hardware kits through Panther now, instead of Spruce. I assume this is correct.

As a manufacturer, I totally understand the evolution of parts and the compexity, so I sympathize, I just want to understand where the kit is today, as a prospective purchaser. Not really interested in being part of the beta team on a $30k investment on my second kit understandably.

Finally, what is the lead time for various parts as of Nov 14. I am looking to buy plans/tail kit, and then a the other kits all at once to save shipping. Are we at weeks or months? Looks like all parts have been produced including canopy and cowling. Are there any parts or components that are not being produced in their final batches yet, regardless of volume?