Flush vs Protruding Rivets

[PlaneDan]

I am in the same boat as you, still old and getting older every day. Still working a full time job. Still wanting to fly again before I can't. The Panther is perfect for what I need in a project. Once I got over the proud stem thing, flush, actually seems better than protruded, for the extra strength provided by the counter sink parts fitting together.

Haven't worked on my Panther at all this week and am getting a BIG guilt trip coming on.

[at7000ft]

I know. I was only making a little fun about it. I totally agree with you, but I ask you again... Does our decision to use the design, parts preparation, and genius of another, make us little boys, or wise men?

Definitely wise to have selected the Panther Dan (from what I have seen so far), plans building was fun and I learning a bunch but I didn't want to spend another 10 years building my next aircraft (I am not yet retired and can't spend 10 hours a day working in the hanger). Plus I look forward to learning more 'leading edge' aircraft design first hand.

Keep up the good work on your Panther Dan (and the great pictures on your website), you are way ahead of me.

Rick H

[PlaneDan]

I know. I was only making a little fun about it. I totally agree with you, but I ask you again... Does our decision to use the design, parts preparation, and genius of another, make us little boys, or wise men?

[at7000ft]

So, what does that make us, little boys, or wise men?

Sorry Dan, that last line I wrote did come out sounding fairly stupid, was referring to Dan W having plans built his Sonex then designing, building and test flying the Panther.

rh

[ynkster]

One of the prime things that make the Panther build great are the people like Tony, PlaneDan, Dan, Rachel, Paul and all the others I have met during the discussion of flush or protruding rivets. After looking at flush rivets that were proud I decided that I was not going to go flush. I took the time to visit PlaneDan and Tony to try and convince myself that I wanted protruding rivets. Not only did I meet PlaneDan and Tony, but I met a lot of very interesting folks. I was part of the big discussion about which rivet to use. We received many ideas about the cause of proud rivets. Paul did an extensive study of the procedures that we were using, and along with Tony, PlaneDan and others put together a solution that works. This helps to explain why I am using flush rivets. Any one that would like to, you are welcome to the "Panther Igloo", but bring your parka- we have plenty of ventilation, but no heat! (low temp this year 20 degrees).

[PlaneDan]

So, what does that make us, little boys, or wise men?

[at7000ft]

Yup, after spending 10 years on my first project, a plans built Pietenpol (plus the Corvair engine) where I had to fabricate everything you realize how simple and quick the Panther kit goes together EVEN with dimpling and countersinking. And like Tony said you need something to do while waiting for the UPS truck.

Real men build from plans (and real super-men design there own plans and build from them).

rh

[Tony Spicer]

Bill,

It's great to see that somebody older than I has decided to enjoy the journey and the destination equally! Dimpling and countersinking isn't rocket science. First-time builders have been doing it with great regularity ever since the RV-3 came out in the early 80's. Besides, it gives you something to do while waiting for the UPS truck!

And Ron, sorry, but you're not the first to decide to use protruding head rivets. Here's a shot of the bottom of the prototype: https://picasaweb.google.com/tonyboytoo ... 4903880178 . Bob Woolley is also using them. Time to start working on a really wild paint job if you want your Panther to be unique

Tony

[ynkster]

Just think about all the fun that you will miss! In my 77 years I never got an education like I have since last August! I never heard of Dimpling and now I are one! It's not that much more time, and it does look better. Crash coarse continues today in counter sinking.

[RonFranck]

I'm the oddball in the bunch, having elected to use protruding rivets for my Panther build. I figure protruding rivets are used for the RV-12, why not a Panther? As Paul pointed out, you might lose a couple of knots top speed, but I'm going LSA, so......really?

I'm not building a show plane and I doubt you will see my airplane sitting on the ramp at Oshkosh or Sun-n-Fun being judge against the big bucks boys and their 6,000 hrs to build RV's. From 20 feet away my rivets will look as good as Davey the Dimpler's airplane, so.....really?

Oh, and I'm not painting the interior with zinc chromate either. Really.

But realistically, I'm 65 1/2 and still healthy and my priority is to fly while I still can and if skipping the dimpling gets me in the air a little more quickly, then that's the best option for me. As they say, your mileage may vary. (Not to mention bragging rights that my Panther is unique from any other)...

On the plus side, SPA supports the flush rivets choice by supplying the hardware kits with flush rivets as the standard rivet. I suspect if there is an increase in the number of builders using protruding head rivets they will add that option to their hardware kits. As for now the economics of low demand does not currently support that option. (unless something has changed recently.)

Cheers, Ron