Glass panel vs. steam gauge instruments
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A forum for Panther aircraft builders and Enthusiasts. Two simple rules: Play nice and use a real name
A forum for Panther aircraft builders and Enthusiasts. Two simple rules: Play nice and use a real name
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- Posts: 4528
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Re: Glass panel vs. steam gauge instruments
I guess another option would be steam gauges, and hand held devices.
Glen
Glen
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Re: Glass panel vs. steam gauge instruments
Glen,
Best way to think about a glass panel, is an aircraft radio or transponder. More than likely, they will be replaced over the life of the aircraft. Because of the development and testing time, avionics tend to stick around longer than commercial goods like smart phones. GRTs EIS (Engine Instrument Systems) has been around for at least 10 years. Several other avionics I can think of have been around about as long. I agree, if you expect it to last 40 to 50 years get a steam gauge. But, keep in mind, as steam gauges less common, they will be harder to get repaired.
Paul
Best way to think about a glass panel, is an aircraft radio or transponder. More than likely, they will be replaced over the life of the aircraft. Because of the development and testing time, avionics tend to stick around longer than commercial goods like smart phones. GRTs EIS (Engine Instrument Systems) has been around for at least 10 years. Several other avionics I can think of have been around about as long. I agree, if you expect it to last 40 to 50 years get a steam gauge. But, keep in mind, as steam gauges less common, they will be harder to get repaired.
Paul
Paul Salter
Team Panther
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Re: Glass panel vs. steam gauge instruments
Tony & Paul,
You bring up some pretty good points. I guess my biggest fear about glass panels is the equipment becoming obsolete in the near future. As the next, "latest and greatest" model comes along, how long a manufacturer supports what they sell today, is anybody's guess. I do heating and air-conditioning work, and run into this problem all the time. Manufacturers will go out of business, or stop supporting older equipment. When you can't get the circuit boards for their machines, they usually become junk. Software updates can also cause problems. I'm sure most of us have flown 40 to 50 year old airplanes that still have their original steam gauges installed. These gauges might look dated, but they still work, can usually be repaired or easily be replaced if need be.
Glen
You bring up some pretty good points. I guess my biggest fear about glass panels is the equipment becoming obsolete in the near future. As the next, "latest and greatest" model comes along, how long a manufacturer supports what they sell today, is anybody's guess. I do heating and air-conditioning work, and run into this problem all the time. Manufacturers will go out of business, or stop supporting older equipment. When you can't get the circuit boards for their machines, they usually become junk. Software updates can also cause problems. I'm sure most of us have flown 40 to 50 year old airplanes that still have their original steam gauges installed. These gauges might look dated, but they still work, can usually be repaired or easily be replaced if need be.
Glen
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Re: Glass panel vs. steam gauge instruments
Forgot to add, most of the displays are pretty good in sunlight. The LCDs that are available now are very bright. The units are pretty reliable, lifespans are measured in years. I have heard of many that are 5-10 years old with no problems.
Paul Salter
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Re: Glass panel vs. steam gauge instruments
Glen,
Many of the glass cockpits have minimal filters, they will take care of small spikes, but not necessarily large ones. However, with the small loads on most aircraft now, especially homebuilts, there usually aren't many spikes. Mainly, only if there is a problem with the alternator, relatively rare.
You can add a "crowbar circuit" if you want that gets rid of large spikes and has a capacitor that also helps with low power fluctuations. These are fairly cheap, less than $100 and not to hard to wire in. We do not have this in the Panther, and have had no problems.
One of the big benefits of glass vs steam, especially in an aerobatic aircraft is the gyros. The electronic sensors in glass cockpits operate at any attitude without tumbling. Many mechanical versions will tumble at high pitch angles.
GRT has been in business many years, and will most likely be around for many more, but as with everything, there are no guarantees. Besides GRT, you can run Dynon, MGL, and Garmin just to name a few. Garmin of course is the biggest, but also the most expensive.
Sport Performance Aviation is a dealer now for GRT and MGL, but you are welcome to install any system you like. We want the builder to be happy with their aircraft.
One downside of glass, is they can be affected by EMI (electromagnetic Interference). Typically, this will manifest itself as engine instruments being erratic when you key the microphone. Using shielded wires as directed for the radio, a good antenna with a true connector, and good shielded antenna cables will get rid of this problem. Also, be sure to have good grounds. These are good practices for any electrical/radio system installation, not just glass cockpits.
And like you said, if you really want to, a couple of backup instruments could be installed, glass or steam.
Many of the glass cockpits have minimal filters, they will take care of small spikes, but not necessarily large ones. However, with the small loads on most aircraft now, especially homebuilts, there usually aren't many spikes. Mainly, only if there is a problem with the alternator, relatively rare.
You can add a "crowbar circuit" if you want that gets rid of large spikes and has a capacitor that also helps with low power fluctuations. These are fairly cheap, less than $100 and not to hard to wire in. We do not have this in the Panther, and have had no problems.
One of the big benefits of glass vs steam, especially in an aerobatic aircraft is the gyros. The electronic sensors in glass cockpits operate at any attitude without tumbling. Many mechanical versions will tumble at high pitch angles.
GRT has been in business many years, and will most likely be around for many more, but as with everything, there are no guarantees. Besides GRT, you can run Dynon, MGL, and Garmin just to name a few. Garmin of course is the biggest, but also the most expensive.
Sport Performance Aviation is a dealer now for GRT and MGL, but you are welcome to install any system you like. We want the builder to be happy with their aircraft.
One downside of glass, is they can be affected by EMI (electromagnetic Interference). Typically, this will manifest itself as engine instruments being erratic when you key the microphone. Using shielded wires as directed for the radio, a good antenna with a true connector, and good shielded antenna cables will get rid of this problem. Also, be sure to have good grounds. These are good practices for any electrical/radio system installation, not just glass cockpits.
And like you said, if you really want to, a couple of backup instruments could be installed, glass or steam.
Paul Salter
Team Panther
Engineer and Builder
Team Panther
Engineer and Builder